Podcast

Entrepreneurial Success By Design

4Q20

A serial entrepreneur shares fundamental lessons on successfully building and scaling companies

Read The Transcript

In this week’s episode of Real Wealth, Real Health, we renew our focus on entrepreneurship, with our guest, Jon Lehman, who serves as Faculty Director of Executive Education at Vanderbilt Owen Graduate School of Management. Jon is an accomplished serial entrepreneur with a clear passion for business and a vast wealth of knowledge to draw upon when answering our most pressing questions on the subjects of entrepreneurship, business development, and the evaluation of a nascent business idea. Jon’s experience has afforded him invaluable insights into what it takes to become successful as an entrepreneur. He’s learned worthwhile lessons through both success and failure, and helped many others along the way, including early interest & investment in Alpha Investing.

Over the course of our conversation, Mr. Lehman offers insights into some of the most common mistakes that early entrepreneurs make, and how best to avoid them. In addition to many valuable tips for navigating any professional career, we touch on the importance of partnerships, and how best to maneuver the various challenges presented therein, particularly as the functions of business grow in complexity. Aside from his many insights for running a successful business, we pick Jon’s brain about the way he thinks about and evaluates a company, business idea, or investment. His pointed approach to business is reflected in the way he evaluates companies and business ideas, particularly when we observe the success he’s achieved in both. This short-but-sweet episode is packed with valuable insights and is a can’t-miss for any current or would-be entrepreneurs.

 

Key Insights

  • The common traits of a successful entrepreneur, and debunking the most common stereotypes of the average entrepreneur
  • The avenues, methods, and approach to growth that help most successful entrepreneurs build wealth, and/or entice investments into their company
  • Insights & tips for how best to navigate partnerships or teams in business.
  • The importance of understanding necessary skillsets, and the intersection of skills needed to effectively operate your business or business idea
  • How Diversification can happen in concert with specialization, even within a single industry

 

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Guest Bio

Jon Lehman is an Adjunct Professor of Management at Vanderbilt’s Owen Graduate School of Management, where he currently serves as Faculty Director of Executive Education. In this role he has worked with a broad range of clients including Nissan, Regions Bank, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Tennessee, Eli Lilly & Co, Vanderbilt University Medical Center, Hewlett Packard, Community Health Systems, and Cisco Systems.

Jon is also a serial entrepreneur who also serves as a mentor, consultant, and board advisor to early stage companies. Prior to joining Owen, Mr. Lehman served as the CEO of a health care IT company that he led to a merger with a Canadian public company. He was an early stage investor and served as Executive Vice President and Director of an international computer training company that was later acquired by a leading educational software company. He also founded and served as Principal of a venture development firm. He holds a degree in Economics from Colgate University and an MBA from Harvard Business School. He is an avid cyclist, tennis player, and traveler.

 

Resources:

Real Wealth Real Health

Alpha Investing

[email protected]

Podcast Transcript

Announcer:

Welcome to Real Wealth Real Health, the show that empowers you with insights, information, and inspiration to achieve your version of financial wellness. Learn how to balance living a full life today with planning for the future. This podcast is brought to you by Alpha Investing, a real estate centric, private capital network that provides exclusive investment opportunities to its members. And now here are your hosts, AdaPia d’Errico and Daniel Cocca

AdaPia d’Errico:

Jon, it’s such a pleasure to have you on the podcast today.

Jon Lehman:

Well, thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

AdaPia d’Errico:

Your background spans entrepreneurship across multiple different categories. And we’re really excited to have you on, because in addition to being this entrepreneur in multiple spaces, you’re also a real estate investor, you’re also in academia and there’s so much to learn from you. So, where I’d like to start is if you could tell us your story.

Jon Lehman:

Sure. So, I grew up in South Florida in Coral Gables, right up the street from the University of Miami. And early on, I got my insurance license because my dad was in the insurance business and he used to have me tag along on calls with him. And so, I learned about selling small group insurance and life insurance in that process and did that during college. I went away to Colgate, which at the time for me coming from South Florida was the frozen tundra of New York. And when I was there, I started getting interested in the entrepreneurship area. And we started a small entrepreneurship sort of advisory group for small businesses up there in upstate New York.

Jon Lehman:

I then, worked for a couple of years. First job out of college was as a stockbroker. So, I learned about finance in that process and was also the selling from the financial services area before that. And then, I went into consulting for a couple years because I knew I was going to go back to business school. And I ended up going to Harvard Business School. Was very interested in learning about how to run my own business and start one. But, of course, I went into consulting for a little while before that, went to work for McKinsey. But my hope was that I would learn about the media industry. That was something that had piqued my interest. And I’d worked for Capital Cities Communication, which was a Warren Buffet investment at the time, that also kind of pulled into this whole theme of how to be a successful investor and how to think about things. And so, this has been kind of an ongoing thing that’s building with me for a long time.

Jon Lehman:

I ended up getting engaged after business school, going to Nashville and started out on an entrepreneurial journey. We started a business with a couple of classmates in the employee benefits field. That was a great example of how not to start a business, learned a lot from that process. And then, the next one was, I found a company that was just getting started out in California. They were doing computer training centers for kids. We built that up to 350 locations in 30 countries, and we ended up selling that business off. My role in that was as an investor, but also in business development. So, I worked with a lot of the top companies, Compaq, IBM, Apple, a lot of the software companies at the time to help build that business.

Jon Lehman:

After that, I worked on a couple smaller projects, and then hooked up with a friend who was a radiologist to start one of the first teleradiology businesses. We ended up morphing that into a software company. By the time we merged that with a public company, we were in about 150 locations serving hospitals and imaging centers. So, that’s how I learned about the healthcare space, which then led to me being on an advisory board for Vanderbilt University, trying to determine whether or not there should be a healthcare program at the business school. And, in that process, I became a huge cheerleader for that. But I was in this transition where I had left my role as CEO of a technology company, and they asked if I’d be interested in running the program. So, I jumped over to academia with literally zero experience and said, “Sure,” because to me it felt like an entrepreneurial project. I had a Vanderbilt brand, I had a receptive market in the healthcare industry in Nashville, Tennessee, and a lot of interest from folks wanting to get into that industry.

Jon Lehman:

So, we envisioned how to create one of the top programs in the country. And that’s what we did. And we actually were putting more students into the healthcare field than programs, probably, six or seven times our size. So, I’ve been at Vanderbilt since then, as I have continued to morph. And this has been now 15 years. I continue to have the entrepreneurial bug and periodically I will jump off and work on projects, often with former students to start things up. Alpha is actually one of those opportunities. And so, I recognized early on that, I thought this was a really cool idea for them and wanted to support them. So, I came on as an advisor, and also an early stage investor.

Jon Lehman:

So, that brings me up kind of to where we are now. I continue to have other entrepreneurial projects that I’m doing, but I love the teaching aspect of it. And I work very closely still with the medical center at Vanderbilt, working with physicians and physician leaders in the organization. And we’ll talk about that, I’m sure, a little bit later.

AdaPia d’Errico:

Yeah. My first question for you, when you mentioned that you got interested in entrepreneurship, what did that look like for you? Were you entrepreneurial as a kid growing up? Or, what sparked the interest and when did you realize you were or wanted to be an entrepreneur?

Jon Lehman:

That’s a great question. I was actually wicked shy as a kid. I mean, I would avoid answering the phone because if I didn’t know who was calling, I didn’t want to be on the call. So, it wasn’t early like that. But what I found was I loved problem solving. And I loved figuring out, okay, if here’s the problem, how do we do this? So, I had made models as a kid. And I often tried to figure out how to work something. And so, how do things fit together? What’s the end product going to look like and sort of it helped develop that aspect.

Jon Lehman:

And then, with my dad being in financial services, that’s a very entrepreneurial business. And I think I picked up some of that. But, ultimately, what I learned was it’s about if you can find a need that somebody has, and you can solve that for them, ultimately, that can potentially turn into a business. Now, I’ve learned a lot, what I call, I like to … I’m one of the few faculty at Vanderbilt that do not have a PhD. But I like to say I got my black and blue by screwing a lot of stuff up along the way. So, I’ve learned a lot of lessons, I think.

AdaPia d’Errico:

I mean, I would say, as an entrepreneur, if you’re not black and blue, then you’ve done something wrong.

Jon Lehman:

Well, I don’t know if you’ve done something wrong, but you haven’t done much. I’m sure there are some folks like, if you look at the guys who started Google, I mean, pretty much straight out of the university setting, they got the first one, right. And, of course, rode that to huge success. That’s not the normal story. The normal story is that you’re going to try a few times. It’s way harder than it seems. And you’ve got to really have a lot of a drive to do things in order to be successful because it’s not a linear thing. And it’s not, poof, I got a great idea. There is so much more nuance around what it’s going to take to be successful. Timing, luck, people, connections, capital, I mean, it’s complicated.

AdaPia d’Errico:

And it’s also, I would imagine, about risk, and what you’ve learned. I would love to understand if you have a philosophy on this, or what you’ve learned around understanding, or evaluating risk in entrepreneurial ventures.

Jon Lehman:

Sure. So, let me say this, I think the stereotype of an entrepreneur is that they’re kind of a gambler. That they’re willing to roll the dice, play the roulette wheel, or whatever. What I have found is that successful entrepreneurs are about mitigating risk. And we often use the term de-risking an idea. So what does that mean? It means, usually, business turn on a few critical assumptions. And what we try to do is test those assumptions early with limited resources to see if, in fact, our assumption around that is correct. So, for example, you might test market and idea. So, rather than spending $50 million to launch something, you try to do that on a smaller scale.

Jon Lehman:

Let me give you a perfect example. We worked, in our teleradiology business, with a company that was trying to do, I would say, smaller, rural healthcare facilities. The individual running the company had been very successful. He had gotten a lot of capital. And he thought he knew how to do this particular concept. So, instead of starting one and figuring it out, and tweaking it, and getting it right, he had the capital, because he’d been successful running hospitals, to do 10. So, he did 10 all at once, and the model was flawed from the beginning. So, instead you should have taken the time to get the first one right, mess around with it, and so on. And that happens across all kinds of entrepreneurial ventures. You want to try to take each critical assumption as you go and find ways to test or de-risk that.

Jon Lehman:

That’s an advantage for a lot of reasons. One, some ideas just don’t work. And so, it saves you a lot of time and energy. The second thing is if you do that, you create value as you go forward in the process. So, the more that I can create that shows that there’s less risk for an investor, the more likely they’re going to value what I have. So, for example, if I have initial customers, if I have paying customers, if I have a working service, or model, or prototype, all those things demonstrate that it can work. And that creates value in the investor’s mind, and allows you, as the entrepreneur, to retain more of the ownership of the company as you go. So, risk it’s not gun slinging. It’s about how do we manage risk in an appropriate fashion, and do that over time, and do things that are lower risk to start with to sort of prove out where we’re headed.

Daniel Cocca:

That’s such a great point for such a large number of people in our network, because even those who aren’t entrepreneurs, who are W2 employees, they work in a space where there’s some entrepreneurial feel. Maybe they’re doctors, or they’re lawyers, and they’re having these conversations about how do I go about building wealth? Is it collecting a paycheck? Or is it trying to build something myself? There’s just a lot of decisions that they’re trying to make.

Daniel Cocca:

And I think you’re spot on. The optic publicly about entrepreneurs is they’re gamblers. They liked to get out there and be risk takers. And what you’re saying is, I think, it will be very helpful to the people in our network to understand that the behavior they probably have now can be helpful in that environment.

Daniel Cocca:

And so, in that regard, I know you started a company with a partner, a radiologist. I think people would be interested to hear just a little bit about how that partnership worked. The differing roles, the different kind of personalities that come into creating a successful venture on stage one. And then, as the company evolves, how that dynamic changes as well.

Jon Lehman:

Sure. Well, let’s talk about partnership in general, or team aspect. I think, as an investor, I look to the team that is involved in whatever venture they’re starting. And I’m looking for personal traits, and experience in that team. In the case of our radiology business, the radiologist, my partner was very entrepreneurial. He started his own radiology practice. He had started some imaging centers. He definitely had this notion of being willing to take some risk, and financial risks to move forward. He, however, did not have … he had the clinical side of the equation and, certainly, the understanding of the market need. But I brought more of the financial and operational skills on how to actually build a business. It’s one thing to be a strong performer, it’s another to be able to build a team and understand what it’s going to take to go forward.

Jon Lehman:

So, we kind of split things out. He was sort of the lead when we talked about clinical things, and working to support healthcare institutions, and how our services would interface with the medical side of the equation. And I would handle kind of the business aspect, the raising of capital to the technology infrastructure, kind of all the stuff that we needed to build that business.

Jon Lehman:

And so, I think for a partner it’s like a marriage, you want complimentary skills. And, like a marriage, if you’re not communicating, if you’re not doing the right things to sort of maintain that relationship it can go sideways. And so, I think picking a partner is a critical aspect, if you’re going to start a business of picking the right one. And, I would say in general, when I think about successful businesses many of them were started by partners, or small kind of core teams, as opposed to the lone ranger because, ultimately, it takes a team to be successful.

Jon Lehman:

And we kind of assess, do they have all the skillset that they’re going to need? And also, you pick time when that skillset is required. So, for example, you don’t need a high-end CFO when you’re first starting a business, who can talk to Wall Street analysts, you’re way before that. What you need is somebody who can manage the books, and get your loan from the bank, and kind of manage cashflow. So, that person is very different as you kind of move up the food chain. And so, the timing, and the skill sets required at different stages of an organization also are really critical.

AdaPia d’Errico:

So, when you’re talking about the partnership, and Dan referenced the radiologist, I know you really have developed a passion for the health tech space, or just the healthcare space. And we would love if you could share a little bit more about some of the lessons that you’ve learned, because everyone is expert at something different. Like your physicians are physicians, like you said, you came in as the business and the operations, and the biz dev in all these years that you’ve been doing this, and you’re still doing this. What are some of the key lessons that you’ve learned that you can impart? Specifically because we have a lot of doctors in our network and I’m sure they’re very open to hearing your experience here.

Jon Lehman:

So, let me provide a little bit of context. Obviously, we built this teleradiology practice, ultimately, a software company. And so, I had the opportunity to interface with a lot of radiologists, and also a lot of referring physicians in the process of that. In addition, we started a master’s in management and healthcare program for Vanderbilt. And I think the reason that program got started is indicative of someone answering your question.

Jon Lehman:

In a medical center situation, I think in a hospital as well, what you find is that physician leaders in particular, generally, get moved up for being great physicians. And they’re put in roles where the skills as a physician are not the same skills to be a leader in an organization. Now, they may co-exist in that individual, but they’re a different set of skills. So, let’s say, a surgeon, they’re prided on making quick decisions in the operating room, what needs to happen, kind of moving that team around, that sort of thing. That kind of, I’ll say, hierarchical approach to leadership works in that context.

Jon Lehman:

But when it comes to working in an organization where you have to delegate authority, where you have to nurture the skills of a team, where you have to be collaborative, where you have to see all sides, those personalities may not mesh as well. So, we created this master’s in management program at Vanderbilt. And there were three kinds of folks that come through the program. Physicians that were moving into leadership roles, nurses that were moving into leadership roles, and administrators, department administrators that were moving up into more administrative roles. And so, we wanted to facilitate the ability of those groups to work together well, and to understand the things that they were facing in a different way.

Jon Lehman:

So it was, we provided financial skills, operating skills, marketing skills, strategy thinking to those folks, so that would round out the sort of, what I called, the business mind as opposed to the clinical mind. And I work also in the leadership development programs for the medical center, and I’ve done that for probably about 10 years. So, all the new department chairs, and now all the director level folks come through a program where I help them think about strategic thinking and problem solving.

Jon Lehman:

And what I find is that the brain wiring is almost different when you think about these kinds of issues. So, again, coming from this place of sort of scientific trained, brilliant, but having to think of now about an organization and multi-year kind of decision-making and putting skills and capabilities in place it’s a different kind of set of skills. So, I think what I’ve learned is that as far as the healthcare field goes, is that, first of all, there are no easy fixes in terms of we’re talking systemically now about the healthcare field.

Jon Lehman:

There are no easy fixes. A lot of the problems that we’ve had in terms of the way our system works or have been relatively – periodically, intractable. We do come up with these creative ideas periodically that this is going to be the thing that’s going to fix it. And what we find is that we’ve done that 10 years ago, or 15 years ago, and we just call it something else and then bring it back. But I think that there are still lots of opportunities to apply creative thinking, new approaches, and create opportunities to create business ideas, and new organizations in the healthcare field every day. And so, I get to see a lot of those new ideas. And then, I apply my lens of well, who’s going to be the customer for that? What kind of team is there? And then, what are they asking in terms of resources, and how likely is it for them to execute on what they want?

Daniel Cocca:

So, let’s elaborate on some of that, if we can. So, in your role at Vanderbilt and your personal investing roles, you’re looking at companies, typically early stage I imagine, and them going through a process of not just only do these warrant my capital, but do they my time and attention, and all of those things. And so, as you’re looking at these companies, what are some of the things that you’re looking for? How do people go about evaluating what makes sense to get behind and what doesn’t?

Jon Lehman:

So, I would say there are four things. One is the people. Who is behind it? What is their experience? What is their vision? Do they have the skillset required to build this thing? Some people may have limited experience because it may be a whole new business idea, so you can’t get someone who has experienced building this thing because it didn’t exist before. But I want to try to assess whether these men and women have the drive, and the understanding of knowing what they don’t know. And whether or not there’s a team there. So, the people aspect is number one.

Jon Lehman:

The second is what is the opportunity that they’re looking at? How big is that opportunity? Is it just maybe a product idea, or is it something that could build a business? How large of a market is it? How entrenched is it? How hard would it be to get to it? So, what is the opportunity that if they were successful, how big of a business could they build, and what does that market look like, and how competitive is it? So, that’s the second thing.

Jon Lehman:

The third thing is I look at the actual deal because there’s a proposal from them to get resources for me, usually money. And how fair a deal is that? Is there an opportunity to get a good return on capital given the risk involved? So if something’s a raw startup and an unproven idea, obviously, you should get a higher return on your capital because you’re taking a lot of risk with that. If you go to the other end of the spectrum, if it’s a sort of a proven model. And I look at the opportunities there, and cashflow is already there and all that, if we think of things that, for example, like come through Alpha, that’s a different risk return profile. So, I would evaluate that based on sort of that set of parameters. So, the deal is really what do I get for what I’m putting in?

Jon Lehman:

And then, the fourth thing, and this is sort of a Warren Buffet axiom is, do I understand what they’re doing? Do I feel like I can assess all of this? Like if you asked me to do something on blockchain that’s not my thing. I’ve certainly read about it. I’ve read the hype, I’ve seen stuff, et cetera. You’re not going to get me, personally, to invest in blockchain stuff because it’s not my area of expertise. Also, you’ll find sophisticated investors make that same kind of assessment. So, for example, venture capital firms typically cluster their investments in certain categories, or industries because they feel like they have expertise, a network, and so forth around those arenas.

Jon Lehman:

So, they don’t invest sort of willy-nilly. They have kind of their zone of confidence, and they pretty much stick within those. In Nashville, Tennessee, for example, you would have a hard time getting a biotech deal financed because there’s not a lot of people that have had a ton of biotech experience. If you want to do something in healthcare services, you will have people coming out the woodwork because they have run hospitals, they’ve run imaging centers, they’ve run surgery centers, they’ve done all kinds of stuff and they can assess the risk and the opportunity a lot better. So, I would say, if you don’t understand it, you probably should stay away from it.

Daniel Cocca:

I think that’s great advice. And it’s something we’ve actually heard from a number of podcast guests, that investing in what you can understand, and that you know, and you’re comfortable with just makes sense. It makes common sense. And sometimes I think in the speculative based nature of just being a human, and what we see happening in the world, we see things like Bitcoin takeoff, and we want to be the guy who turned $10,000 into 5 million. And that sounds awesome. But the reality is, more often than not, that’s going to turn out in a really negative way. And so, really good advice, and I think echoed by a lot of folks we’ve had on the podcast to date.

AdaPia d’Errico:

Another thing I wanted to ask, and it may be a bit of an odd question, but it came to mind so I’m going to ask it. With the clustering of the venture capital firms, and obviously a venture capital firm is made up of multiple people, you have your analysts, you have everybody’s there, but it’s clustered. And they achieve diversification within the companies, but within this sector, they are concentrated in that sector. So, I’m trying to get at diversification, and understanding that a venture capital firm has that strategy, and maybe in their personal lives they’re diversified elsewhere. How do you approach diversification when it comes to specialization?

Jon Lehman:

So, I think we need to think about what the ways to “diversify.” And when I say sectors I could say healthcare and technology, those are sectors, but they are so broad that within them, even if you did only ‘healthcare investments,” there are many, many different ways to play. If I said we were only investing in traditional hospital companies, now, there I’ve got concentration of risk. But if I think about kind of across the healthcare spectrum, I have a different view of “diversification,” at that point. So, I think there’s that aspect of how broad the “sectors” are. Now, within that I can certainly pick categories, or types, or more narrow fields that even if I bet on a few horses, if you will, within those categories I can still diversify my risk.

Jon Lehman:

And, in fact, if you bet on the right category sometimes the categories are going to do well, even though the horses may not be all that great. And you’re looking sort of for fundamental things that are going to drive the business there. So, for me, personally, when I think about diversification, there’s only a certain percentage of my financial worth that I will allocate toward early stage stuff because they are, ultimately, the riskiest of the bunch. And then, there are certain things that I will put in other categories. And I try to diversify myself across, if you will, asset classes. Perfect example with Alpha is they’ve got a certain set of assets in the real estate arena and that’s appropriate for a certain percentage. And the risk return profile is, actually, quite good there compared to if I’m going to do a startup where, basically, they’re often binary, it’s 0 or 100 and, usually, nothing in between. So, I try to look at kind of how I would allocate my own portfolio, so to speak, depending upon whether I’m going to spend time on something.

AdaPia d’Errico:

Yeah because a lot more people than ever are starting to see the benefit of diversifying into real estate, like what Alpha does. So, we speak with a lot of people that say, “Hey, I’m maxed out in my 401k. It’s all in index funds and what have you,” and they’re hearing about the opportunities in real estate. And this has really been growing for the past few years. And so, they come, and they want the diversification, and they start here. So, I really appreciate the answer because even within the world of real estate there’s all kinds of ways that you can invest. I often tell people on calls that they might want to be doing active, or direct investing, or they already are. And I say, it’s not mutually exclusive to investing in a passive syndication. And then, within that, you have all the different asset classes, and geographic diversification. But there really have been a lot more people that have become interested in asset based investing.

Jon Lehman:

Right. And I’m going to say, if I wanted to invest in real estate one option would be to go out and try to go flip a house. That’s a lot of work, a lot of energy. And I might make more money on a percentage basis, but I don’t want to screw with that. I’d rather put my money with folks that are professionally looking at this, and are doing it consistently, and have developed an expertise, and partner with them than, try to kind of reinvent the wheel. That doesn’t mean I might not buy a piece of real estate because I think it’s a great opportunity. But if you’re thinking about kind of portfolio allocation stuff, you’re better off finding the people that know what they’re doing, and letting them do it for you as long as the incentives are aligned.

AdaPia d’Errico:

Yeah, that’s always really important is that alignment of incentives. So, that’s really great. That’s really great advice. I’d like to lead from there, and ask you more broadly now, how you think about wealth, and wealth building for yourself, and your family legacy? Just how do you think about wealth?

Jon Lehman:

Well, I’ll start a little philosophically with that one. Wealth and a rich life are not necessarily financial in nature. And so, I’ll say that, I mean, I think the question is more about their financial stuff, but I’m going to say that having a rich life, having one that you are proud of, that you are getting the things out of life that you want that, to me, is real wealth. And so I know for me, personally, being in a professor role, and being able to work with folks, and help improve them, that has created a very rich, and a great return for me just from that aspect of it, which is to see other people do well. That, to me, is created personal wealth.

Jon Lehman:

And I have a file of letters from my former students who have said, basically, you changed my life in a good way. And whenever I want to feel good, I get that file out and I will pull those letters out, and think about that. And it’s just super rewarding. So, I think about wealth in that way, sort of primarily as like is life doing the things for you?

Jon Lehman:

As far as the financial aspect of things, for me, the money hasn’t been the goal. It’s been solving a cool problem, or working with interesting people, or building an organization, or whatever. And I feel like the money part comes along with that if you’re successful. And some people have been very successful saying, “Hey, I just want to make a bunch of money or whatever.” No, I want to do cool stuff. I want to do things that make me happy. And so, I’m more focused on that. And it seems like the rest of that has come along in the process.

Jon Lehman:

In fact, I think if you’re too fixated on it, then sometimes that’s going to hinder you. And there are certain projects and things that I’ll take on. Like, for me, one of the most valuable things I have now is my time. And so, I am very judicious about where I will spend time, and with whom I will spend time. And the old expression, life is too short to be dealing with you know, I’m just not going to do it.

Jon Lehman:

Now, that being said, having money is better, generally, than not having money. And being able to do the things that you want to do when you want to do them, that’s a good thing too. And so, a lot of people want to create enough money, and enough wealth that they have flexibility, and they can provide for their families, and do the things that you want.

Jon Lehman:

It’s really interesting, I actually asked this question. I teach a class called Learning to Thrive, which is basically, what do you want to do with your life? And, in that, I asked the question, “What if you won the lottery, what would you do?” And the answers I get back are usually, “Well, I would want to provide for my family, make sure they could get an education, do all that stuff.” Some people want to buy an island in the Caribbean, or whatever. But most are trying to figure out a way to give back, to get that, what I would call, personal wealth or the kind of things that we talked about beforehand, that intrinsic sense of worth by doing good things.

Jon Lehman:

And so, I think that’s consistent for a lot of people. It’s like you get to the point, and if you look at surveys of happiness, and how happy people are, and that sort of thing there’s like a threshold of money where people they don’t have to worry about their next meal, they have a nice place to live, et cetera. And then, kind of above that, the happiness meter doesn’t go up very much. So, it’s about what is enough that’s going to give you the flexibility, and the ability to do the things that you want to do, care about? And those often have to do with family, and free time, and something that’s rewarding to you.

AdaPia d’Errico:

You just gave such a beautiful multidimensional answer around wealth. Thank you so much for that. It was like you just took it from so many different dimensions and really, really beautifully stated. Thank you so much. And I agree. And a lot of our guests say the same thing, and a lot of people we speak to as well, they’re looking for yes, money, wealth, returns. But they’re also looking for a way to live a better life, to spend more time with their families, and to give back. There’s so many different aspects to it. So, really appreciate your input on that and your perspective.

Jon Lehman:

Well, thank you.

AdaPia d’Errico:

So, that said, thank you for just being on the podcast with us today, and just sharing so much. I think that’s such a great place to end off. I thought I had something, but I don’t. It was so perfect, so I just really want to say thank you for everything and everything that you’re doing. Thanks for helping Alpha get started, and still being part of our company. We value you so much here. I’m really, really grateful for you.

Jon Lehman:

Well, thank you. And thank you for the opportunity to be on the podcast today. And I appreciate the work that you guys do. And you’re building a really cool organization. That’s doing great stuff and providing an opportunity for people. And I’m thrilled, if I evaluate the people, on this opportunity, they’re outstanding. And that’s one of the reasons I wanted to get involved. So, thank you.

AdaPia d’Errico:

All right. Thanks so much, Jon.

Daniel Cocca:

Yeah thanks, Jon. I really appreciate you taking the time. This is really good. I think a lot of the physicians in the network, but everyone generally will find this to be particularly insightful. So, thank you a ton, we really do appreciate it.

Jon Lehman:

Great. My pleasure guys.

AdaPia d’Errico:

Thanks for tuning in to Real Wealth Real Health. We hope that you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, and found it both informative and insightful. We welcome all your questions, and your feedback about today’s episode. And, especially, we welcome your questions about specific topics that you would like us to cover. So, shoot does an email at [email protected] And if you have a moment, we really appreciate ratings and reviews, as it helps us grow our online community, and our interactions with you. And we’ll also be linking to a number of relevant articles on topics that we might’ve touched on during our conversations. Some of them are broad, some of them are technical, but we’re always aiming to provide information that helps you better understand the mechanics of building this healthy financial foundation, especially if you’re looking to do this with real estate.